From left, Veena Merchant, editor-in-chief of News India-Times and Capitol Debates’ host; Shivani Nath, a practicing psychologist in private practice; Assemblyman Upendra Chivukula (D-NJ); Dino Teppara, attorney and senior legislative assistant to Rep. Joe Wilson; and Vij Pawar, attorney who had run for political office. (Photo: Courtesy, TV Asia)

VEENA MERCHANT: Shivani, I know you take care of different kind of patients. Today, I want to focus on people with some problems. Problems in your opinion that start with being people of color in a foreign country.

SHIVANI NATH: There are multi-fold problems of being a person of color in this country, especially when race is used as a marker for identifying yourself and that’s the way by which people perceive you. It is absolutely one of the biggest challenges so to speak.

MERCHANT: But the fact of the matter is that it is not something one can cure how do you deal with such patients?

NATH: It has to be a gentle process because the person is trying to explore the various means by which they can accept themselves and I guess acceptance and acknowledgement is a challenging process itself.

MERCHANT: I am sure acceptance is a situation. Take me for instance, I don’t believe I have a problem with who I am but there is racism around you. It is very upsetting and one’s reaction is not something one is proud of. So how does one deal with a situation like that, when you know you are not in the wrong, somebody is, particularly after 9/11, this community has been under attack?

NATH: Often times we internalize a lot of factors that are happening in the society and sometimes we might not be directly under attack but we have internalized the aspects of racism so much that we inherently feel that a person from a different racial background who is looking at us is being racist.

I found an interesting headline. This is from a TV show. It was about Dr. Martin Luther King. The part that I found interesting is a quote supposedly from Dr. King –– “I think it is better to be aggressive.” When asked whether he thinks Blacks ought to act gradually asserting their rights. His answer: “Privileged classes don’t give up their privileges voluntarily.’’

MERCHANT: I find that very potent because at the end of the day how do we make the other side understand us?

NATH: We have to make the other side understand us. But I don’t think it is as critical as understanding how your reactions get manifested by someone else’s perceptions.

MERCHANT: What about aggressive behavior in terms of what has been happening after 9/11. How do you make others understand you?

NATH: You should tell the other person where you are coming from and educate them if they are not as educated on certain issues but I also believe that you cannot fight every battle, especially in the light of 9/11. I have advised people to make public presentations, write newspaper columns.

MERCHANT: We are people of color and sometimes I feel we are in denial that we aren’t people of color. Shivani, do you think we are in denial situation sometimes?

NATH: I think sometimes we are because this country is blacks versus whites and if you are in the middle you are sort of nowhere. But more than denial it is confusion, people don’t know how to place themselves.

MERCHANT:Confusion is correct and even Census took long to decide who we are. We just celebrated Martin Luther King Day. President George Bush, in his speech on the inaugural day, said, “our country should abandon all the habits of racism because we cannot carry the message of freedom and baggage of bigotry at the same time.’’ Where has this country come from Martin Luther King’s time?

UPENDRA CHIVUKULA: Racial relations are not just about blacks and whites, browns have been interjected in the middle of it. A lot of times when I go for Martin Luther King birthday celebration events, a lot of people talk about race relations between blacks and whites and I have to remind them that there is a color called brown in between.

A lot of progress has been made but we haven’t seen the dream yet. We are still far from it in terms of opportunities at work and in business and access to political power.

MERCHANT: What are the difficulties you encounter as a person of color?

CHIVUKULA: You have to educate the voter that you are no different than a white person or a black person or a latino. You have to explain your value system. Also your name is a diverse name. It is not a Christian name. Being a first-generation, you bring your accent with you. Once you overcome the initial stages, people start accepting the way you look at things. It is an education and a relationship process.

VIJ PAWAR: I agree. Why should we place ourselves as brown or Indians. Even during elections or campaigning if you feel inferior or act inferior you will be perceived as inferior.

MERCHANT: So are you saying that we don’t have to go that extra mile?

NATH: I am not saying not think about it. Keep your ideals, values but don’t make an issue of it. If you treat people the same they will treat you the same.

MERCHANT: Dino, being on the Hill, do you notice any difference in terms of people’s treatment toward a person of color?

DINO TEPPARA: I don’t think of myself as a person of color. I look at myself as a regular American and people treat me that way. A lot of it has to do with how you present yourself to the society.

MERCHANT: All three of them said they don’t perceive themselves as a person of color. Would you Shivani, in a psychiatrist’s language, describe that as denial or acceptance?

NATH: I think it could be one of those two things or resistance. Sometimes we resist to not give ourselves a certain label.

CHIVUKULA: The key is to be sure of who you are and you don’t need to broadcast that. You have to accept that you are a brown person. When you are interacting with people you don’t have to highlight that.

MERCHANT: So it is your attitude that is important. But to some extent do you feel that we as an Indian community are a bit racist ourselves?

NATH: Absolutely. Our own personal view of being racist toward other communities makes it difficult for us to accept that we could be victims ourselves.

MERCHANT: Can you give me an example?

NATH: I was working with someone who belonged to a certain group of the Indian society and came from a certain area and had very opposing view about a person who she was dating. An Indian guy who came from different cultural background. In that case, it he wasn’t fair enough, intelligent enough,minded enough.

MERCHANT: As an editor, I have spoken to younger people and when they describe their problems they say, ‘I have no problem with my identity at all’. But when they walk in the door for a job, they are asked what country are you from. It starts to hurt. How do you deal with that?

TEPPARA: That may not necessarily be racist. You can educate them that you are an American.

(Transcribed by Bhavna Kaul)