From left, Veena Merchant, editor-in-chief of News India-Times and Capitol Debates’ host; Shivani Nath, psychologist in private practice; Sameer Kumar, attorney; and Nikhil Kamkolkar, a filmmaker who just finished a film, ‘Indian Cowboy,’ which he wrote, directed, produced and acted in. And he is a stay-at-home dad. (Photo: Courtesy, TV Asia)

VEENA MERCHANT: Sameer, is there a gender gap at all?

SAMEER KUMAR: Absolutely. I will take it from a personal level rather than professional level. I can see it in societies perpetuated heavily by our parents, which formulates itself into double standards as some people see.

Our siblings, for example, my sister and other females are not given same privileges and advantages.

MERCHANT: Do you see yourself as a fair person?

KUMAR: In some regards yes but when it comes to a lot of the double standards, they have manifested themselves in me and it is a constant battle not to let it perpetuate itself in this society because it doesn’t fly.

MERCHANT: Thank you for admitting. That is very brave of you. Do you see a gender gap? Since you are a stay-at-home dad I am sure you have a slightly different perspective.

NIKHIL KAMKOLKAR: On a personal level definitely there might be less of a gender gap if you talk of personal versus societal. They are two different aspects. In personal relationships, no matter what the gap may be whether it is age related, whether it is gender related, you negotiate and work it out in a relationship. More important gender gap exists at the societal level,

which I think is problematic for me because that tends to put people into categories and into certain career directions, things like that which really shouldn’t have to be.



MERCHANT: What bothers me the maximum is the economic differences in the sense that the labor statistics say that 25 years ago, women used to earn 62 percent of what men earned in the same job and now they earn 80 percent and they are taking it as a major coup. How do you feel about that as a democratic society not acting democratically within their own society?

KUMAR: You brought up a good point. You just spoke about the difference in the wages and the salaries. You have a situation where I think women are not perceived as aggressive as men. Personally, I work with quite a few women in the industry.

MERCHANT: Should that create a difference in the salary?

KUMAR: Should it? No. But does it? Absolutely.

MERCHANT: What do you do to get a better salary? Do you go and aggressively ask for more? Do you think Shivani it is again a stereotype perpetuation when a man applies for a job, he is automatically expected to get more than a woman?

SHIVANI NATH: Males often are expected to get more which is why we have this huge distinction and I wonder what these men are doing to bring that distinction down.

MERCHANT: My question to the men is: when you vote, if it is a female candidate and a male candidate, both identical in their perspectives to the world, both belong to the same party, it is the primary, who would you vote for?

KAMKOLKAR: For the sake of argument I am going to say the man.

MERCHANT: Why?

KAMKOLKAR: Not necessarily it is just the candidate that makes the difference. It is the support they can garner, the relationships they can build, the work that they can get done.

In politics it happens a lot... their relationships with existing people in the whole pyramid if you will.

MERCHANT: Women are stereotyped as being manipulative and to me political maneuvering is manipulative. So why wouldn’t they be more successful in those manipulations?

KAMKOLKAR: Once they prove it to me I will go for it. I am waiting for Hillary Clinton to get up there and become the next president of the United States.

MERCHANT: Do you think she is manipulative and not as smart?

KAMKOLKAR: She is very smart. The thing always becomes about who do you relate to. Men relate to men and women relate to women.

MERCHANT: That I buy since there are more men it perpetuates it.

KAMKOLKAR: Sometimes it is not such a complex thing. It is simply a matter of images you put out, a matter of information that people are exposed to and that makes a difference.

MERCHANT: Do you see it that way? Would you vote in the same position? It is the primary, same party, same issues, same thinking. Would you vote for a woman or a man?

KUMAR: I would vote for the woman. I love to see the change. Just as much as I would work for a black president for the simple reason change is inevitable. I disagree with something that Nikhil said. One thing that I would love to focus on is that women have another aspect. They are also seen as nurturing, which I think would be great in politics, like Hillary Clinton, both intelligent and nurturing. There is a gender gap there but it is a positive. We see so much male ego and I am not going to say I don’t have it.

MERCHANT: Can you describe the male ego? I have heard that term very often. I have used it myself but never understood it.

KUMAR: It is the most delicate thing a man has.

MERCHANT: Shivani, put some light on this. You are a psychologist. Where does it come from? Is it genetic, heritage, or is it the environment?

NATH: It is a combination of both genes and environment. Boys want to be like that. Boys love truck drivers and they love trucks. The list goes on and on.

MERCHANT: Let us talk about your film, what sort of images did you throw?

KAMKOLKAR: I turned the whole idea of male-female relationships on its head. In my film, women are aggressive, if you will.

MERCHANT: You did it for box office appeal.

KAMKOLKAR: The film is drawn out reactions of my own experience of life in terms of relationships between men and women and the whole idea of societal pressure on them.

MERCHANT: If you were not staying at home, would there still be pressure?

KAMKOLKAR: There would be pressure on staying in a certain type of career. If you really want to see the differences go after people who have gone into alternate careers and see what they struggle against in society and in their own family.

MERCHANT: My problem is not really so much about the differences between genders but I feel 50 percent of the workforce is not effective (because of glass ceilings and inequalities in pay) and the world would be very different if 50 percent of the world was as effective as the male. The world order bothers me more.

KAMKOLKAR: My film was crewed predominantly by women lead department heads. My producer was a woman. I did not hire them because they were women. In fact they didn’t think they were at a disadvantage because they were women. During one of the conversations I asked my producer how old she was. She said ‘we are hesitant to tell our age because they think we are too young to do our job. We are worried about ageism.’ She wasn’t even worried about sexism.

MERCHANT: Which means the world is changing.

KAMKOLKAR: Absolutely. When I look at a person I want to see if they can do the job. If they can, they are on or else they are out. It is simple.

(Transcribed by Bhavna Kaul)